Speaker 1 0:04

The difficult thing for me is trust is a difference. Faith is in the head. Trust is in the hands and feet. You know, this is, this is the action part. This is the leap of faith where, you know, seemingly hopeless in situations. I , I put my trust in God, and that is difficult from time to time. For sure. I would say, if you don't believe that you belong here, then go out there and find out if you do believe that you're powerless and you need this. Listen for somebody who speaks to you, that knows the steps. That's passionate about it and cling to them for dear life and follow them everywhere.

Speaker 2 0:41

Welcome to the daily reflection podcast with your hosts, Michael L and Lee M on this show, we try to provide inspiration through interviews with members of the recovery community. You're not aligned with any 12 step recovery program, but you will hear them mentioned throughout the course of an interview today on the show. Liz H from Philadelphia, Liz is sharing on a daily reflection, mysterious ways before we get to the show a favor. If you're listening on Apple podcasts, if you could provide a rating or leave a comment, let us know what you think of the show. It's going to help us improve and help us expand our reach. We greatly appreciate it. Enjoy the show. Good morning, Lee, how are you? Good morning. I'm doing very well. How are you this morning? I'm doing great. It's March 17th. What do we have on the agenda for today? Well, today we have with us, Liz H from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and I believe she's a home group member of yours if I'm not mistaken. Yeah, I think so. Liz, welcome to the podcast. How are you?

Speaker 1 1:36

Great. Thank you very much for having me

Speaker 2 1:39

Great to have you on the show. Well, today is March 17th, as we said. And , um, we're going to get started with the daily reflection. Would you read it for us?

Speaker 1 1:46

Absolutely. Um , mysterious ways, March 17th, out of every season of grief or suffering when the hand of God seemed heavy or even unjust, new lessons for living were learned, new resources of courage were uncovered. And that finally inescapably the conviction came that God does move in a mysterious way. His wonders to perform 12 steps and 12 traditions. Page one Oh five, after losing my career, family and health, I remained unconvinced that my way of life needed a second. Look, my drinking and other drug use were killing me, but I had never met a recovering person or an AA member. I thought I was destined to die alone and that I deserved it at the peak of my despair. My infant son became critically ill with a rare disease doctors efforts to help him proved useless. I redouble my efforts to block my feelings, but now the alcohol had stopped working. I was left staring into God's eyes, begging for help. My introduction to AA came within days through an odd series of coincidences. And I have remained sober ever since my son lived in his diseases in remission. The entire episode convinced me of my powerlessness and the unmanageability of my life today, my son and I thank God for his intervention.

Speaker 3 3:03

That's a powerful daily reflection. What, what does this bring up for you as you read it?

Speaker 1 3:10

It makes me think that, you know, for me, God was just bending my arm, trying to make me say uncle and I didn't want to, you know, I didn't, I was in denial. That's what really caused most of my pain was just the unwillingness to admit that I was powerless, you know , um, and even in sobriety , uh, trying to manage life, trying to handle things and getting to that point where it's like, I, I really can't do this. I gotta let go. It's one of those things that, you know, I believe that I feel that a lot of the times, but when I don't feel it, I don't have the power to do it.

Speaker 3 3:51

It's almost like, like these things are God intervening and bringing us to a point where we're willing to do things that we weren't willing to do before.

Speaker 1 3:59

Right. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 4:01

Tell me what it was like before you came into the program.

Speaker 1 4:05

Well, before I came into the program, there was 30 years of what it was like. I was a admitted venturous kind of person, you know, and I can, I can manage a lot of things I can. And that really, I got pretty far with that, my own way of managing life. And , and when I started drinking, it was a party and that was manageable for a while . Um, I was the last one to recognize that it was unmanageable. I traveled around the world. I paid my own way everywhere. I went, you know, and I did a lot of , uh , different creative things that just convinced me, I really don't need help. I can manage, I can do this. You know, I had a daughter and that, that was like a pause button on my disease, which, you know, I stayed sober for almost two years when I had my daughter. And so I thought I was fine. I was fully convinced I can absolutely manage this. You know, my problem was I didn't have a reason not to drink. And now that I have a reason not to drink, this is going to be fine. And then in that year, after, you know, after, as soon as my daughter was weaned , I started drinking again. And within a year, it was in comprehensible demoralization, really the shame of , uh, of, of somebody else having to tell me what I did to the people I loved. That was really, I surrendered. I surrendered. Then I realized like, I , I can't, I don't know what what's wrong. I I'll be completely honest with you. I didn't believe I was an alcoholic. I say that I reluctantly signed the contract. I won't drink anymore because it's a problem that I can't deal with. And it's clearly a problem for everyone else. So I kind of resigned myself to not drinking, but that just opened a whole nother, a whole nother door. Like, okay, well, this is , I can't drink. I got to smoke pot 24 seven. And on the weekends, when everybody else is hanging, I got to find some other things at the salad bar to keep myself entertained. And the funny thing is, you know, after I got sober, I blame that on my partner. He knew I was an alcoholic since the day he met me. So what are you doing? Hanging out and do drugs with me pal. And he took me two laps around the steps before I realized, thank God for that experience, because if it wasn't for that experience with different drugs, I don't think I would have ever admitted powerlessness. I would erode this thing until the wheels fell off, which could have been another 10, 20 years, you know,

Speaker 4 6:27

You know, switching and trying different substances. And then did you , did you ultimately come back to alcohol eventually?

Speaker 1 6:34

Well, that was, I mean, you've heard my story the year that I , um, you know, I was, I was just doing drugs and smoking pot all the time. And I didn't like the idea of living completely sober was just not even it wasn't in my, in my field of vision at all. I was going to find the thing I just had to be okay. I had anything to keep my soul corked up in . And I remember me and Jim were down in Atlantic city, hanging out for a couple of days. And I remember being so angry and resentful that all I wanted to do is drink really. That's what I, that's the thing. I don't like the drugs. I want the smooth lie of alcohol, that romantic that I can sell myself, see the drugs make me, I don't like this, this isn't what I want. I want, I want the booze baby. And after a couple of days of having the other stuff and knowing that I'm not allowed to drink, it just made me so angry. I said, pull over, let me go into the store real quick and buy a pack of cigarettes. And I did. And I also bought like a 40 ounce of blue moon. And I chugged it as fast as I could. And quickly lit a cigarette, walked out of there, hopped in the car. And he started, he was like, he sniffed. And he was like, Liz, did you just drink a beer? Cause I hadn't drank in a year. And I just looked at him like he was crazy. And I was like, why, why would you absolutely not. I don't drink. And as I said, this lie, the whole thing came out of my mouth. I vomited all over the dashboard of the car, myself and him. And it was still foaming. I mean, this beer was in a bottle 60 seconds before this happened. And it was that moment when I realized, Oh my God, I am powerless. I actually believe my own lies. You know? And I said like , all right, send me to rehab, whatever you gotta do. Just, I don't have an answer anymore, but it three days of being up and doing other kinds of drugs that didn't dad didn't tell me that I had a problem. You know, it was being caught red handed in a lie that I could not my way out of, you know, it was the first time I actually saw it.

Speaker 4 8:36

So was that the moment that you decided maybe I need to start looking at things differently or was that just the moment you were caught and decided to maybe go to rehab?

Speaker 1 8:48

I was caught and I surrendered, but not in a fully conceded to my innermost self as , as a last option. Like I have no other moves on the board. I'll also render like put me in a box and get me out of here because I can't handle it.

Speaker 2 9:06

What happened to make you say, okay, I want to , I want to feel differently. I want to live differently. I'm unwilling to take some suggestions

Speaker 1 9:14

After that moment, it sort of began like a slow landslide of, Oh my God, I'm wrong. Oh my God, maybe I'm wrong. Oh my God, I might be wrong about absolutely everything. I have no idea who I am. And about two weeks into rehab , um, I had gone from , uh , uh, there's no way in hell that I'm an alcoholic to thank God. I'm an alcoholic because I can breathe through the first time in 20 years, really , um, everything fit. And I like things that fit. And I just was trying for too many years to make things fit. It didn't fit and I'm frustrated. So when I , when I got to rehab and I started reading some things and I started recognizing myself in , in all of this, it was a huge relief. And I've been, I mean, gun-ho about this program ever since I, I didn't drink again. Um, so I got four years of no booze , but I did have to test the ground with the , with the pot, the CBD oil thing that wasn't around when I was in the game. So, you know, I learned things the hard way. I don't know how that feels. So, so let me see how that feels. And then a year after that one, I tried some magic mushrooms, you know , for the spiritual experience. And that was a disaster. You know, I , I, I have like a tolerance for reality now. I'm like, I can't deal with. Anything. That's a lie. I can feel it. You know,

Speaker 2 10:51

Tell me about the spiritual aspect of your program. Was it difficult for you to grasp a higher power and begin to trust that the higher powers in control?

Speaker 1 11:03

I always grew up with faith. The difficult thing for me is trust. There's a difference. Faith is in the head, trust is in the hands and feet. You know, this is, this is the action part. This is , uh , the leap of faith where, you know, seemingly hopeless in situations. I , I put my trust in God and , um, and that is difficult, you know, from time to time for sure. But, you know, I, I spent my whole life trying to get away from the faith I was raised with being raised Catholic. And , um , I was like, Oh , not me, not me. And it turns out that I'm , I'm still a Catholic, you know, I say I'm a non-exclusive Catholic. And what your question is interesting. Like, is it difficult for you to grasp? It's impossible for me to, and I tried for a long time to grasp it. I say, I have cute aggression with God. I just want to get my hands on it, you know, and thank God for meditation and the steps, you know, step 11 at night. I do that every night. I have a book, I wake up, I do my upon awakening. I stopped to pray twice a day, really. And , and it's, to me, it's become this thing that I'm , Oh my God, it's just a mirror image of my using, you know, I don't, I would find myself in situations that were overwhelming. I can't handle it, handle situations and feelings, and I want to escape. I need a power. That power was a drink or a drug always. And so now that I'm in recovery and I find myself in similar situations where I'm a little, you know , out of my depth , or I have to pull back on trying to control and manage the situations . I need a power. I need it right now. I pause, I pray. I have little purse that I say throughout the day to keep myself in check with that. And I rely on that, you know, what am I under the influence of? I was always under the influence of something I had to be. And now, you know, when I, when I'm working with a sponsee or when the 12 step call or chairing a meeting, or, you know, just being with my family, what am I under the influence of is a very important concept for me. I want to be under the influence of God and grace. And , um, and, and, you know, I heard somebody, I really respect say that this program is designed to bring us into communion with the world around us. And I really, I love that. I believe in that. Um, and I know that at my best I can be an extension cord and that's it. Um, and that really depends on, on my spiritual condition.

Speaker 4 13:43

That's beautiful. So the , um, tell me more about the extension cord. So at your best, you can be an extension cord, say more about that.

Speaker 1 13:52

It was a difficult thing for me to , um , realize that I have no organic virtue and that all of the things on my ideals list, all of the things that I've admired in , in people, my whole life they're virtues. Right? And I don't possess those. I , they don't come from me. It come from God. And those are the things that I want most in other people. So those are the things that I believe I, you know, I want to give, you know, you , they say you don't get it until you give it away. Well, I want to be that, and I'm not capable of that. That doesn't arise from me. That comes from God. So at my best, if I can get myself out of the way, I can be an extension cord of those things that I love and admire , um , those virtues so that I can connect somebody else. Who's usually in need of that. You know, that's what I think all human beings need and , um, in life is for me, has been a process of coming to this, understanding that the thing I need most, I don't possess and I never will, but I get to participate in exercise those things when I'm connected to a higher power. And , um, and in order to, to remain in that state, I have to be constantly extending to other people.

Speaker 3 15:15

That's amazing. Love it. I'm glad I asked you. Yeah,

Speaker 1 15:20

I'm

Speaker 3 15:21

Hearing a lot of emphasis on connection. How long into recovery did you realize the importance of fellowship and connecting with other addicts and alcoholics?

Speaker 1 15:31

It took me about a year on a relapse. Um, I think when I, when I got sober, I had a really powerful, spiritual experience and I was just so relieved to be okay. And , um, and I was still pretty selfish at that point in time. I, I wanted to hang out with God all the time and, you know, I didn't want to go places that made me uncomfortable. And I, you know, I was very selective. It was very selective about this is, this is good, and this is not good. And this isn't good enough, and this is not good enough for me. And it just, it made me not relatable. You know, I kind of just blocked myself up in my ivory tower . And , um, and I thought I was just full of myself for a little while there. And it took a relapse for me to realize that this thing is not about me. My life is no longer about me and that it's not about what I want or how I feel or what I think it's about what I believe and what I believe is that there's no exclusions here and that we don't meet people by accident. Um, I think, I believe in this concept of sacred contracts and, and if, if, if you , if me and you have crossed paths, there's a reason for that. And , and I should be looking for what I can pack into the stream of life and reaching out and , and extending, you know, whatever I can to, to the people that, that are in my life, whether I particularly liked them or not, you know, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 3 17:03

I love it. And you know, I see it in that, in your practice and your program. I see, you know, somebody said something , um, God speaks to us through people. And when we spend so much time alone, there's not a whole lot of opportunity for God to speak to us directly through other people. So does that drive you? I know that you're in service all over the place. You're involved in a number of different meetings. Does that, is that what drives you? What drives you to all of the service that you do?

Speaker 1 17:29

You know, I , I'm eager, I'm desperate to get out of myself and I'm eager to see what God has in store for me next. And I know that the more I direct the energy that I have outwards towards people. I mean, you , you guys know little, if we can even call them that I'm a maximizer. That's one of my like personal characteristics I like to maximize. So, you know, the more fish I have in the more lines I have in the water, the more efficient I'll tach , like I'm always looking for sponsees. I'm always on the hunt for anybody that knew my grandfather back in the AA days, because he was very active in the program and people really respected him a lot. And I've come across many people , um , in this program that remember my grandpa 20, 30 years ago, I love AI . And the more people I can meet and connect with the better.

Speaker 4 18:28

So the daily reflections says that it's quoting the 12 and 12, and it says new lessons for living relearn new resources of courage were uncovered. And that finally, and escape bubbly , the conviction came that God does move in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform. I'm curious, in what ways you feel like God has a working mysteriously in your life today?

Speaker 1 18:51

I would say that God mysteriously reveals to me how wrong I am every day, the people that I would say I don't like based on first impressions have become the people that I love the most, the thing that I want to do the least turns out to be the most abundant grace, very mysterious ways. In fact, when I was 17 years old, I left home before senior year of high school because me and my mother would fight a lot and she would drink. And my grandfather who was sober, decided to send me to Ireland, to live with our family over there , mysterious ways. That's where I learned how to drink, you know, and I remember sitting at the stepping stones up in Northeast Philly and they have a picture of my grandpa on the wall. And I was just sitting there wondering like , if grandpa did he know I was an alcoholic when he sent me to Ireland and just sent me money every month, you know, like let them do what they have to do. And you're not the Constable standing at their door, telling them what to do and what not to do. He was very old school, you know? And the irony of that, that I would end up sitting in that meeting, looking at the picture of him on the wall. Would I even be here if he hadn't done that? Would it have taken me more years to get into my heavy drinking? You know what I mean? If I didn't get started at a young age, that's pretty mysterious to me,

Speaker 4 20:15

That's mysterious. So what would you tell a newcomer if there's somebody out there listening? That's not quite sure that this is for them or maybe they just got here and they're still feeling it out.

Speaker 1 20:31

I would say, I dare you. I double dog dare you to try it. Um, just because, you know , if you dare me to do something , um , I'm going to do it. If you tell me don't do something, I'm probably going to do it, you know? Uh, but if I could talk to myself, which is a question I've been asking every speaker, if I could talk to myself in my first year of sobriety, and this was the thing that changed the whole game for me, I would say, if you don't believe that you belong here, then go out there and find out if you do believe that you're powerless and you need this, listen for somebody who speaks to you that knows the steps that is passionate about it and cling to them for dear life and follow them everywhere. And that took me a while . I think Kim , Thies the woman that I called after my relapse, after that first year of kind of floundering around just going to meetings, but not doing any work, not getting connected with the sponsor, no discipline, really just kind of spiritual mumbo jumbo. And , um, yeah. Find that person and stick to them because this is really like a Prentice ship gig. You know, I think there's the part of my , my brain that drives behavior has no capacity for language. I have to feel something I have to resonate with you. It has to move me or I'm just not going to do it. You know? And , um , when I remember when I heard Kathy , I was like that woman, she's got what I got and I need what she has. And that changed the whole game for me. She hooked me up with my sponsor and the rest is history, but it took me a while to actually connect with somebody like that. And I guess it also took me another relapse to realize that I, I, I was absolutely powerless and desperately in need of,

Speaker 3 22:22

I think that relapse was absolutely necessary.

Speaker 1 22:24

Absolutely. I think everything that has happened up until this moment was absolutely necessary.

Speaker 3 22:29

Is your willingness in direct proportion to your desperation?

Speaker 1 22:33

Not anymore. I don't have to be in pain. I'm starting to know now that there's another way I don't have to be on the floor. I guess what happens as I practice these principles in all of my affairs is that trust gets bumped up. You know?

Speaker 3 22:48

So you're saying you can access willingness through trust.

Speaker 1 22:51

Yes. Through my own lived experience. I know that when I put things in God's hands, I get results. Always whether I'm in pain or not. So why wait for the pain?

Speaker 3 23:02

Love it. So is there anything else that you want the audience to know

Speaker 1 23:07

The 12 steps work? I mean, that's it. I tried to skirt my way around that. You know, I, I'm a artist. I cheated myself out of the greatest thing. You know, that ever happened to me by, by delaying it and just listen, listen for something that makes your , that rings a bell in your heart. Um, I made so much noise when I came into this program that I, it just delayed the effect, and this is something that I say often and some people don't like it, but the thing that really for me, and the only thing like experientially that I have to compare it to is when the miracle happened with, with me and my sponsor in the steps. When I, when I knew, when I conceded to my innermost self, Holy, this works. It was like that moment when the mushrooms kick in and you're just blown away, you know, like you can not explain that to somebody who hasn't experienced it, try , I dare you. And I think my experience of the steps, just a wholehearted desire to remain sober for the rest of my life in knowing that I can experience this kind of joy, sober with God and a program and share that with people, as many people as I want to, when I was a kid and I had a sip of wine for the first time, I thought, this is the thing they're hiding from me. Now. I know what they're hiding from me. And when I met my sponsor, when we started doing this work, I was like, Oh, 30 years later, this is the thing. This is the ultimate thing,

Speaker 2 24:44

The good stuff. And I'm a top shelf drinker, baby. That's right . Liz. I want to thank you for spending time with us. It's awesome to spend time with you, for sure. Thank you so much. It's wonderful. Thanks for coming. Talk to you guys. Thanks so much to Liz for stopping by. Thanks to you, the listeners for your support. I'm going to find us online. You can follow us on Facebook, facebook.com/groups/daily reflection podcast. You can find us on Twitter at daily reflector, and you can read about recovery on our blog at blog, that daily reflection, podcast.com. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.