Speaker 1 0:03

Many of us said during major, as we understood it , that's the key right. Is going to cheer God. I said that my God, God, I offer myself to thee to build with me and to do with news that will lead me of the of self that I may better do. That will take away my difficulties, that victory over them may bear, witness those . I would help with like power. I love my way of life. Yeah , I do that . I will always , if you're listening to this right, and you're feeling desperate, right? You can recall when you could go back a few seconds and say that prayer with me as I recite that you think about it yourself. And I say that prayer, I think for myself, like I'm willing to have another experience, willing to try something else. I'm willing to try to be a member of alcoholics anonymous.

Speaker 2 0:55

Welcome to the daily reflection podcast with your host , Michael L and Lee M on the show, we try to provide inspiration three interviews with members of the recovery community. The show is not affiliated with any 12 step recovery program, but you will hear them mentioned throughout the course of an interview today on the show Chris P from Reston, Virginia returns. Chris is sharing on the concept of the Keystone third step as, as the Keystone, the Archway through which we pass great conversation with Chris. Before we get to the episode, if you're listening on YouTube, can I ask for a thumbs up, maybe subscribe. So you don't miss an episode. If you're listening on Apple podcast , can I ask you to give us a rating, a comment, let us know what you think of the podcast. It's going to help us improve the show and expand our reach. We hope you enjoy this episode. Good morning, Mike, how are you doing this morning? I'm greatly . It's good to see you again. How are you? I am great. It is March 14th. And what do we have

Speaker 1 1:55

In store for us today

Speaker 2 1:57

While we've got a return guest ? It's crispy from Leesburg, Virginia. Welcome to the show, Chris. It's good to have you back on.

Speaker 1 2:04

Thanks Mike and Lee. Appreciate it.

Speaker 2 2:07

So, Chris , uh , why don't you introduce yourself to the audience in case they didn't catch your first episode, which I think was way back in January.

Speaker 1 2:15

Sure. Chris alcoholic from Leesburg, Virginia. And , uh, I got sober when I was 16 in 1989 and have been sober ever since.

Speaker 2 2:31

Well, it's great to have you back on , uh , we start the show in the same way. Every day. We ask the guests to read the reflection. And today we're talking about the Keystone. Do you have that handy?

Speaker 1 2:43

Do I have it right here? March 14th, the Keystone, he is the father and we are as children. Most good ideas are simple. And this concept was the Keystone of the new and triumphant arch through which we pass to freedom, alcoholics anonymous, page 62 , uh , Keystone is the wedge shaped piece at the highest or of an arch that locks the other pieces in place. The other pieces are steps one, two and four through 12. In one sense, this sounds like step three is the most important step that the other 11 depend on the third for support in reality. However, step three is just one of 12. It is the Keystone, but without 11 other stones to build the base and arms Keystone or not, there will be no arch part through daily working of all 12 steps. I find that triumphant arch waiting for me to pass through to another day of freedom.

Speaker 3 3:45

Thanks for reading that, Chris. Um, I like this passage and I liked the , um, the concept of step three being this, this Archway that we stepped through to freedom. Um, tell me a little bit about how that resonates with you.

Speaker 1 3:57

Yeah, this is, thank you, Mike. This is a great, it's a great reading. And this , this reading comes out of the third step in the big book. And I read this for a long time on a daily basis when after , just after the , uh , what we read in meetings often the, how it works when it gets to the ABCs where just after that a stock begins to talk about the third step. And probably my favorite part is it right before this, it talks about , uh, so our troubles we think are basically of our own making. They arise out of ourselves and it begins to describe self-will run riot. And it's one of the first promises for me and in the book, because when , what it means is that I don't need to wait for other people to actually make changes in my life. Things can begin to happen and I can begin to make some changes. And so, as we get into this, this next part, where the reading came out, he tells us exactly how to go about kind of turning our will and life over the care of God. And it says, first of all, we had to quit playing Cod . It didn't work next week. Next, we decided that hereafter in this drama of life, God was going to be our director. And it goes into that reading , um , which is, which is just absolutely wonderful. And so for me, I can remember when back in 1989, I was early 90 . I was laying on my , uh , I was living at home. I was totally depressed. I was a teenage alcoholic, alcohol and drugs was killing me. I'd been kicked out of school. I'd spent two years in drug rehab, got out of that drug rehab, almost 11 months of sobriety after being in there for almost two years. And so I knew I was gonna gonna drink again. You know , I was totally depressed. I was laying on the floor of my parents' house and I heard a voice and I was struggling because I knew self will run. Right , right. And I knew that the decisions that I had been making were , uh , were killing me. I heard this voice. And the voice said, you focus on staying sober, Chris, I will take care of everything else. And I can remember feeling this peace come over me associated with, you know , kind of taking the third step, right. Moving into the, moving into the next realm of sobriety. And step three has been a huge part of my life. And now having a new director and having a new experiences,

Speaker 4 6:47

I think that's such a powerful story. And for that kind of a message to come to someone so young in a way that, you know, you would listen to, it is kind of miraculous. If you think about it in the reflection, it says, in one sense, this sounds like step three is the most important step and that all of the other steps really aren't as important at step three. Um , and it goes on to talk about that more, but what do you think about that? Do you think it's the most important step?

Speaker 1 7:14

Uh, I don't, I do think it's, I do think it's critical, but you know, there's all the, all the steps are important, right? You discuss that often. And in , uh, in the very beginning of, there is a solution, as we talked about this Keystone, and there's a solution that talks about the semen that binds us together as alcoholics until I come to realize that I'm not alone in step one, and then I have a problem and I'm powerless over that. And then what I find, what I like about these building things is that then the next in step two, it talks about the cornerstone, just having willingness in step two, to believe that a power greater than ourselves is a cornerstone in which we can start to build the spiritual structure, right. Which back in 1989 was a far cry from anything I could have ever dreamed of was totally desperate just to get off of that . Didn't see a solution to that. And so then as we move into step three, turning that over, you know , just began to take hold, you know, just after that, reading it against, it actually says the third step, prayer, you all don't mind, I'm just going to , I'm just going to recite it. So I think it's important to this, to this reading. This is how it goes. And I've said this prayer many times, hundreds and hundreds of times. So I've said this prayer on my knees desperate, and I've said it not desperate with my friends in AA . And so this, this is where , this is where it goes. Many of us said to our maker, as we understood that that's the key, right. Is going to sit in the chair, God . I said to my God, God , I offer myself to build with me and to do with me , leave me of the of self that I may better do that. Well, take away my difficulties, that victory over that made their witness. Those I would help with like power I love and my way of life. Yeah , I do that . I will always. So if you're listening to this right, and you're feeling desperate, right? You can go back a few seconds and say that prayer with me as I recite that you think about it yourself . And when I say that prayer, I think to myself, like I'm willing to have another experience to try something else. I'm willing to try to be a member of alcoholics anonymous, right . I'm willing to get by a new AA sponsor, a call I'm willing to, if I don't have a sponsor and I've heard about, about getting a sponsor, I'm gonna , I'm gonna make a call. I'm gonna reach out to the person in the meeting who I think has something that I want, and I'm gonna ask them, Hey, will you sponsor me? It's about having a new experience.

Speaker 3 10:16

That's a great suggestions, Chris, especially for the newcomer, you were quite young when you experienced that, you know, hearing that voice. How long had you been separated from alcohol when you had that experience?

Speaker 1 10:30

Uh, probably a year and a year and a few months, not long, but I've been doing step four. I've been doing step three all along and trying and been praying on my knees every day. Um, you know, listening for, for to hear something. And, you know , it talks in the reading about this walking through to the, I find the triumphant arch waiting for me to pass through another day of freedom. And how often have I had the craving to drink and use again and just all the time, right over the last 30 plus years. And I've been sober many, a days where I have felt the compulsion to , to drink and use again. And when I'm, when I'm able to turn my will and my life over and hold steady, I walked through that pathway that they've described to freedom, right. Because I haven't, I haven't put it in my mouth. You know, I didn't , I didn't succumb to the temptation, which was difficult.

Speaker 4 11:43

How does God remove your difficulties? And how does that work?

Speaker 1 11:49

So earlier in the reading of step three, it actually talks that , uh, that selfishness and self-centeredness is the root of our problem and that we, we can't remove that on our own. And , um , so, you know, I can't, I have found more success in allowing God to remove it from me and asking for it to be removed that I have, by trying to force my successes on to the situation at hand.

Speaker 3 12:23

Something that was really essential in my recovery was getting to a point where I found the willingness to do some of these things, you know, reaching out and trusting in something that I didn't quite understand. It sounds like you were at that, at that place as well. That jumping off point, what do you tell the newcomer that feels like maybe they haven't hit their bottom?

Speaker 1 12:45

Well, that's , that's a great question. Since I got sober young , uh , the second half of the big book has a whole list of stories that talk about , uh, people where the bottom wasn't a house on fire scenario. So if you're new and trying to identify with some stories in the book that try to relate to the question is on a daily basis, am I willing to turn my will and my life over ? So am I hitting bottom in the beginning, which is critical, but I've had many bottoms over the, over the years that I've been sober and come into very difficult times. Um , I gained some solace by reflecting back on when I did the third step and I turned my will and my life over as diligently as I possibly could. And that I asked God to remove those difficulties from me. And then , um, and then when I heard the voice that said, I'll , you know, I'll take care of everything else. The life that I've been given in alcoholics anonymous, even through the hard times has been absolutely spectacular. It's now time to be thankful for the opportunity to go through the struggles, right ? And to know that I'm, I can do those hard things and I can be sober and I can carry the message to my friends and I can be a good father. Those things are, those things are absolutely important. I was laughing. I did a, I did a video cast a while back that talked about, and I talked about the third step and I was reviewing that at some point here recently. And I said , and I said, was, I look back on things. It has worked out. And I said, if you asked my parents, as they look back on my life, they would also say it's worked out right. That being a member of alcoholics anonymous, following the 12 steps has been just absolutely fantastic because , you know, it looked like it was going to be short for their son . That's for sure.

Speaker 3 15:13

Program is so powerful. It certainly helped me with my main problem at the time that was , was drinking, but it's also helped me with relationships. And it sounds like that's the case for you as well. How else has the , uh, has the program changed your life today?

Speaker 1 15:29

You know, I love this , uh, at the , at the very end of , um , of a book and a book of a chapter in the book is called a vision for you. At the very end, it talks about trudging the road to happy destiny. And I was , I was talking with a friend a few weeks ago and, you know , we were, he was talking about needing help. And I said, well, when I, when I started, I also need help. And , uh , I said , we stand on each other's shoulders, you know? And , uh, you know, that's just , that's just absolutely a wonderful thing. And so as we, as we're, as we're not too cool to , uh, to pray with one another and to walk with each other, as we go through the difficult times as we , um, you know, experience life together in AA meetings or conversations that we're having with one another, as we walked down that road grow happy, destiny, the most wonderful things begin to happen, you know , um, you know, I mean , it is , it is a fellowship in that , uh , you know, having a camaraderie associated with , uh, with trying to better myself , uh , with God's help is it was critical. I could cry randomly about it , just the gratitude I feel in my heart about the support.

Speaker 3 17:05

Does that happen to you? Do you get choked up? I know it certainly happens to me. I was just talking with Lee about that today. You know, I just feel so moved

Speaker 1 17:13

All the time, all the time. I'm choked up a little bit right now. The , uh , you know, if I cut something short, if I kind of something short, you know, it's coming, it's coming on, started to come on. You know, the facts are, is that I'm filled with gratitude. You know, I was a desperate, I was desperate, you know, alcoholic drug addict, kid who , uh, who I knew I was going to be dead before I was courteous . And I was reckless. I was reckless in AA as well, but I didn't have the drugs and alcohol clouding my mind. And so thank God. I was scared since , you know , some things that were happening, but , um, you know, it's just been, it's just been absolutely a wonderful ride. And , uh, you know, I've got all these quirky things that I do that , uh, that I do out of habit now that I enforced back then. Right. And so I think it's important as I began to try to have a new experience. Some of the things that people said was, you know, if you normally brush your teeth with your , uh, with your right hand, right, why don't you try brushing with the left hand for a minute, just to get, just to have a different experience, if you normally put your , you know , with your rifle for try doing it with your left foot, so that you can begin to think about the willingness to have a totally different experience, that if I'm used to , uh, reacting quickly , uh , out something, when somebody says something to me or, or offends me , um , maybe I can just keep my mouth shut just for a minute so that I can , uh , try to have a different experience when my boss or why for somebody says something that , you know , I don't think it's appropriate . Maybe I just keep my mouth shut for a second so that I can try to have a different experience. And , um , it's amazing that those little things really begin to add up and small changes really compound , um , beginning to have some good habits like praying in the morning, and then since got better, as I read the reading, it also reminded me of this on page 98 and the 12 and 12, right credit for the Saint Francis prayer. It says that prayer meditation and self-examination taken together creates a solid foundation for life or something like that. That's what this does to rise . So that I start off with what's the third step, as you mentioned, that the other steps right. Created , helped create that firm foundation for life that it describes , which has been just absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 5 20:07

Have you always felt comfortable praying Chris ?

Speaker 1 20:10

No. No. Um , I was terminally cool, which meant I would've rather, I'd rather have been on fire and then prayed in front of me for somebody. And I had an experience when I was, when I was an adolescent, you know, in a church setting that I felt moved for a particular situation. I couldn't raise my hand. And , uh, and I went into the bathroom by myself, shut the door and got on my knees at that point. And I , you know, and then almost five years ago, I was , I was in a , I've started taking my, I began to take my children to church because I thought it was important for that. I continued to feel this need to , uh, to raise my hand during worship. And I was, I couldn't do it. Um , you know , there was 2000 people in the sanctuary. Some of them had their hand raised. Some of them didn't, nobody cared whether I had my hand raised or not. I couldn't raise my hand all around the burst into flames and raise my hand. And at some point I, at the time I was, I was in a step study with a bunch of guys and I was doing, we were doing a four step and it bothered me because I was unable to get outside my ego enough to raise my hand. I was even in the back of the church, it wasn't in the front, I wasn't in the front of the church. I was in the very back. I told the guys after we, after we'd gone through the fifth or sixth step, I said, Hey, well, the next time I feel like I'm going to that. I feel moved to raise my hand in church. I'm going to do it on the raise, my hand. I'm going to give you guys my work. We went around the room and they said, look, I don't care, Chris. I don't care if you raise your hand. Well , they were totally in big one to any of that. Right. But it was important. It was important to me. So the next time I was in church and felt this need to raise my hand, we the band at church. And so they were playing a song and , uh , it was, it was, it was a great song and it was starting to a climax if you will. Right . And I was feeling like raising my hand and I had my hands as far into my pockets as I could go on . And they were almost , they were almost in my socks. I have super long arms anywhere. I'm 64 . I have like a 37 inch sleeve. I mean , I got, I got, I got my hands totally down into my, into my pants . And I feel feeling this calling, if you will raise my hand. And I told my friends that I was going to raise my hand a step back away from my wife. She was in front of me. I had stepped back away from my wife . And I just slowly put my hand up. You guys, you guys can see it on the video, but anyway , I'm slowly putting my hand up. I'll just tell you, this is my, this is my experience felt like my hand had gone through the ceiling and had actually reached up into heaven and the feeling I got the chemo . Unbelievable. Not only do I have my hand up, which is, you know , it was just absolutely incredible the feeling . And that's just more example of like, if I can get out of my own way, I can just get out of the love that God has for me, which is deal.

Speaker 4 23:41

Can you tell us a little bit about, you know, the book tells us that we have a daily reprieve based on the, of our spiritual

Speaker 2 23:46

Condition and you've been doing this ,

Speaker 1 23:50

Uh, the , uh , daily practices , um, starts off with , uh , usually a , um , I get on my knees in the morning. That's what I do . So it starts off with a prayer. Um, it starts off with a, oftentimes with an AA meeting I like to do. And so I'll make time for in the morning so that I can, I can be with my family in the afternoon. And I spend a fair amount of time working the steps with other people and being available to do that. And when something bothers me, when something bothers me, then I generally take it to the fourth step . I'll write about what it is. We'll discuss it, come up with a solution which usually involves prayer and a process to kind of work through whatever that difficulty is. Because for me, the power to change comes from the higher power that talks about and steps to take my problem with you . Well , whatever that is, and get release from that through , you know, working step four , finding out what it is , uh , admitting it to guy myself, to another human being and figuring out what the , you know , what the defect is with the counteracting asset. And then scripting a prayer that I began to say, and step seven helps to alleviate that. And I've just recently transitioned out of my, out of my job. And so I've been doing a lot of that recently. So it's been , it's been really exciting.

Speaker 2 25:35

Is there anything else that you want to share with the audience before we wrap up?

Speaker 1 25:39

Well , I really want to, I really want to invite you if you had , if you haven't done step three and you don't have a sponsor, I've , it's been wonderful for me to have done those things. If you haven't done it and you want to do it, go back to when , when I read that quite shut down before, before we started to say that prayer, and think about me saying that with you being there with you as you go through, or if you have a sponsor or you want to reach out to somebody else and reach out to them and you can have them doing it with somebody else it's uncomfortable. It feels uncomfortable to sit next to somebody and hold hands or not . It's powerful. But again, if I can get my ego out of the way, which wants to kill me, then I can experience the love of God as it comes through. It comes through

Speaker 2 26:34

Getting sober is difficult. Getting sober in a pandemic is even harder, I think. And you know, you sharing today, you know, I think , I think it's a, it's a great way of providing some hope and some inspiration. So , uh, I want to thank you for that.

Speaker 1 26:46

Thanks, Mike. Thanks for having me back on. Thanks for coming, Chris . I've enjoyed it and I love to see you think it's great to see a join in join bike on the microphone and just really , it's just, it's absolutely fantastic. You guys are doing a lot of good . I appreciate it. Thank you. I'm so glad you came.

Speaker 2 27:09

Thanks so much, Chris, for stopping by sharing his experience, strength and hope, and thanks to you. The listeners truly appreciate your support. If you want to follow us online, you can find us on Facebook at facebook.com/groups/daily reflection podcast. All one word, you can find us on Twitter at daily reflector, you can read about recovery on our online blog. It's at blog dot daily reflection, podcast.com got some new bloggers, Nan eff , who shared on the podcast back on February 7th path to faith has written an article. She's got another one in the works. There's some other authors getting ready to publish. Some more articles would love to see you there supporting them. That's at blog dot daily reflection, podcast.com. Thanks everyone. Have a great day.